5 Questions With: The Flavor That Kills
On their third album, the Madison scene vets party their way through the end of humanity.
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Good morning!
Today we’re talking with Madison, WI-based The Flavor That Kills
While writing about records has taken me on some unexpected rides, I did not expect to have (literal) treasure hunting to be one of them. A code in the liner notes of Book of Secrits, the latest by Madison-based, The Flavor that Kills, recently had me walking around staring down at my phone as it constantly reoriented us. “I can tell you there’s a cash reward and other nice trinkets,” said Eric Hartz, the drummer for the band. “We’ll just say there’s a secret in the album.”
My phone tells me I came within 9 feet of finding out.
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The Flavor That Kills lineup reads like an anthology of local bands; their latest release is a montage of those influences. Funk, R&B, soul, and even punk-they’re all here. The result is a record that feels as manic and barely contained as the era it was made in. Clocking in at just over 35 minutes, it’s 13 tracks, all going 100 mph.
There are elements of metal as well, with the band taking a more guitar-based approach after swapping out keys for a second guitar. That newly found edge does well to tap into the vague sense of unease that seems to be everywhere you look today.
Book of Secrits is a record that pushes up against the corners of every genre, and, in the words of bassist Christian Burnson, gave the band “an opportunity to be more adventurous and use more instruments and approach the record from [more of a] production orientation.” That sense of adventure is reflected all the way through and makes for a sound that is lethal for any roof it’s played under.
A concept record about the end of humanity doesn’t seem like it’d be a blast, but that’s exactly what it is.
If there is a secret to be revealed on the album, perhaps it’s that you can still have a good time while the world is going sideways.
In "American Dream," the band asks, “Take a look. Are you having a good time?” For many of us, that answer will vary, but while listening to the Book of Secrits, the answer is invariably yes.
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I recently had a chance to chat with the band. In our wide-ranging discussion, we cover the record, the band's history, and what’s next for them. It’s a great look into the scene of Madison's past & present.
Oh, and as of this writing, the treasure still hasn't been found.
(Our chat has been lightly edited for clarity/flow.)
This record and most of our songs come from an unconstrained, super free musical place. I feel like every time we write a song, it's like smashing atoms of whole bunch of musical influences that are just roaming our heads rent free. I hope people find our music eclectic, fun, with a good dose of adventure.
KA: Can you tell us a little bit about your backstory? What got you started playing? Are there any other bands that you are/were involved in?
Eric Hartz (drums): My back story starts with my high school band opening for Fugazi in the 1990s; it’s been a downhill slide since then that started in Waukesha,WI. Soon after I moved to Madison,WI and have continued to actively play in local bands starting with The Coolhand Band, Hum Machine, Shazy Hade, and now The Flavor That Kills. I have never stopped playing.
I think influentially, one person made me think of playing drums as a way of life. In high school, I watched Bad Brains in Milwaukee,WI. I was dumbfounded and blown away seeing them play, while sitting on top of the speakers on the left hand side of the stage, about 6 feet from the band at The Odd Rock Café. I would consider myself a drummer at this time, but I was just getting started. After seeing Earl Hudson, my life changed. I was so enamored with the show, I stuck around afterwards and got to talk with Earl. He was wearing a stop Apartheid black t-shirt and dripping with sweat. I mustered enough courage to tell him how impressed I was with his drumming and how cool the show was. Earl asked me if I played drums, and I talked about my high school band and he encouraged me to make playing drums a life decision no matter what was thrown at me. He gave me confidence and hope. I could not thank him enough, and I didn’t even want an autograph, so he gave me that black Apartheid T-Shirt off his back. I don’t have it anymore, but I sure wish I did. Later on, I had the fortune to meet Bill Stevenson from the Descendants, and ALL, because when they came through Wisconsin, they stayed at my friend’s house. While Earl gave me confidence and determination, Bill gave my straight up advice on how to play. I’m not sure it was even good advice on a technical side, but to me, it was the only way to play. To this day, I keep my drum thrown low, so I have a 45-degree angle, I use 2 crash cymbals (one on each side) often the exact same type 18” crashes, and I use a 15” hi hats. This is because of Bill Stevenson, and I’ve never changed it since he told me about it.
Ryan Corcoran (vocals): In 1993, I was a singer in a trio named "Nine and a Half Inch Nails." We played one song for our middle school talent show. A single copy VHS tape recording of our Black River Falls Middle School performance may exist. After the talent show, the group never played again. The other guys in the group felt that we went as far as we could go, unless we got a new band name and a new singer. Later that year I was asked to sing in a group that did 90's alternative and metal covers named "Fore." They did Alice in Chains, Pearl Jam, Metallica, Queensryche, Beastie Boys, Nirvana, Smashing Pumpkins...you name it. If it was metal or grunge in 1993-1994 we were jamming it. Somewhere along the way, I was gifted a Hondo electric Guitar and a Fender solid state super chorus, and we played every VFW and town hall in Jackson County, Wisconsin. We were writing songs, incredibly catchy bubble gum pop jams, and we recorded a 5 song E.P. in Stillwater, Minnesota named, "Uncle Eds Adventure through the Enchanted Forest, Part 2 the Epic" We replicated 500 cassette tapes with Buzz Kemper in Madison, Wisconsin and we hired a guy by the name of James Hobbs to do the Artwork for the Cassette.
Then our guitar player, Jim got married. Josh, Luke and I moved to Madison and kept on playing house parties on campus, local shows in Madison at the Annex, O'Kays and doing home recordings. Somewhere around 2000, Fore broke up. The reason why we broke up, I believe, is that we still didn't have cell phones yet so communication was quite awful.
So I started making music with Casey Brown and Dave Jones, one project with Casey Brown was named Cosmic Bob, the other was named "The Greatest hits of Black River Falls," With David, who is probably the most creative talented musician/artist I was lucky enough to work with, we started a band called "The Cool People" Released a 5 song E.P. off of Rock Station Records named "The You and Me E.P." in 2003. We recorded the tracks over the course of 18 months on a reel to reel in a basement off of Winnebago Street. Casey quit the group, or got kicked out depending on what story I remember. We took the tapes to Jake Johnson of Paradigm productions who did an incredible job getting the two reels synced up somehow. The Cool People played house parties and shows in Madison, La Crosse, Appleton. David quit the group. They all ended up moving out to Austin, Texas.
This was between 2003-2004. At that point, I still wanted to make music, I had a pile songs I had written that didn't fit The Cool People. So I got ahold of Casey Brown and started forming another band. I found Andy Iordachescu, Adam Monos, and Justin Taylor somehow through the newfound power of the internet at some point. Casey knew Brendan McCarty, and we eventually formed a group named "Awesome Car Funmaker."
Depending on who you ask, Casey was either kicked out or quit that group. ACF went on to record "Green Means Go," "Of Lover's and Monsters" and "E is for Everybody." We did quite a bit of touring, we played about 300 shows, we did the 30 PBS 30 minute music hour. Thru ACF I was introduced to Eric Hartz, Mike Zirkel, Beau Sorenson, Christian Burnson and Nick Murphy. ACF Broke up around 2009.
At this point, I was quite sick of playing shows, touring, and dealing with band drama. So I put out a solo project with Clive Tanaka, input from Manos, Brendan, Sorenson, and Burnson named "The Lake Delton Project."
I recorded some tracks for Clive Tanaka on Neu Chicago at Smart Studios in Madison while Beau Sorenson was engineering. The band Tanaka hired canceled the morning the session was scheduled.
Beau asked me to come to Smart. I lived two blocks away at the time. I was off that Saturday, so I figured I would just come down hang out and drink coffee. When I got there, Clive was expecting me to play the guitar. Smart had incredibly good coffee back then. Clive was paying for the time, therefore paying for the coffee, so I grabbed an axe and tried to figure out what he wanted me to play. In the basement of Smart, at the time, on the floor where the basement leaked and had persistently standing water, was a Gold Record for Everclear's "Sparkle and Fade." It is a long story, but the bottom line is that it was there because the studio wanted it there. I guess that band and the studio didn't get on so well.
When Clive asked me to play a line or a lick I would tail it with a transposed version of the open guitar lick from "Santa Monica" from Everclear's "Sparkle and Fade."
I don't think he realized that I was joking around, or realized or recognized what I was doing.
So at or near this time Sean O'Keefe was coach surfing at the house I lived at on Ingersoll Street. Beau had asked if he could crash there, and no one had a problem with it. He was involved with Fueled by Ramen and Fall Out Boy and a band named Cobra Starships. Later on, one of the songwriters of the song "Starships" popularized by Niki Minaj, most likely ReDone, was most likely doing research on Cobra Starships and those around the band. To the best of our knowledge, that is where the melody line, chords from Tanaka, and my joke of a guitar line from "Neu Chicago" must have either been adapted into the song "Starships" or the colossally small chance they independently came up with the same music a year after Tanaka was finished recording and promoting it. It wasn't like this was a basement band, This was recorded at Smart Studios and had been mentioned in Pitchfork.
When Clive claimed it was lifted, I was skeptical at first. I figured it was a publicity stunt. Then, I broke down the two tracks and did the music and math. The line that Tanaka had wanted me to play followed the rules of some sort of music from Africa that I am still not familiar with. The final melody line followed those rules, dropping the final tag into the transposed end of Everclear's "Santa Monica's" opening lick.
Neu Chicago didn't sell as well as Starships. Who knows how intentional the lift was? All I know is that Clive settled the lawsuit out of court and still hasn't taken me to Disneyland.
So I kept plugging along. The Lake Delton Project became The Labor that Kills, which changed to The Flavor that Kills because Christian thought it would be funny. The Labor That Kills put out one L.P. with Jason Standish on bass. The Labor That Kills has put out one EP with goats on it and one record with a hippo on it recorded at Buzz Kemper's studio, with Emry Linster playing keys, nevermind the actors with Jeff Quin on Guitar and mixed by Mike Zirkle.
And now this one, which is a galaxy away from Starships, produced by the Shave and Beau Sorenson, recorded at Coney Island with a game-winning shot from Wendy Schneider.
Educational “Nick” Davis (Guitar): I was playing in my solo project band, Educational Davis, at a music festival when the guitarist for TFTK didn't show up to their gig. At the time, I had been sprinkled with magical fairy dust, so I floated up to the stage to jam and play the wrong notes with them, and the rest is history.
Christian Burnson (Bass): I grew up playing cello, piano, and guitar. Never really played bass until my sister asked me to be in her punk band. I initially told her I didn't want to be in her dumb band until I listened to their demo which was great so I begged for forgiveness for my rudeness and joined the band. My roommate gave me a bass that was in his closet, and while walking to my first band practice, I passed two garage sales. One sold me a case for my bass, and the next sold me a bass amp, and the rest is history.
KA: Congrats on the new record! Do you think this picks up where your last record left off (2018’s Nevermind The Acorns), or is it more of a turn in a new direction?
Eric: BOS is a change in direction for sure. It has a different lineup, and we went from a Rhodes to adding a second guitar. This album is very representative of where the band is now. I would say the songwriting process is the same as previous albums, but we have different members contributing now. I like both albums, but BOS has a much harder edge to it.
Ryan: Nevermind The Acorns wasn't a full-fledged concept record, but It did contain similar themes. Acorns(Archons)/Aliens/Ghosts/demons vs humanity. It's all in there.
Nick: Being a TFTK fan before joining the band, I would definitely say this was a new direction.
Christian: I think this record is a bit of a departure from the last record in that we are now more of a guitar-centric band. That said, this record was recorded in a more leisurely fashion which gave us an opportunity to be more adventurous and use more instruments and approach the record from a more production orientation.
KA: I can hear quite a few different influences on the record- everyone from Parliament to Infectious Grooves and back again. Who would you include here?
Eric: That’s interesting because I have not heard Infectious Grooves; I’ll have to check them out. I was a huge Parliament fan and even did some recording with Bernie Worrell and spent a day in the studio with him. I can see this album being like Funkadelic, but we don’t stay on the one like Parliament did; we kind of go off the rails a little bit. That’s a nice complement, so thanks!
BOS to me represents the music Christian and I we were listening to at the time we wrote some of the songs. We were in a phase, and listening to everything Mike Clark and Paul Jackson did with Herbie Hancock and some of the Paul Jackson solo stuff. Those two are a wicked “in the pocket” rhythm section. There are also some bands like Iron Maiden, Cymande, and early Fleetwood Mac we were into as well.
Ryan: Star Trek Deep Space Nine. Kurt Vonneguts, "Cat's Cradel." Lots of Nine Inch Nails, Bowie, Radiohead and Jethro Tull. Jethro Tull in the opposite sense. Whenever we are writing, I go back and make sure that in no way can it be construed or imagined to be close to Jethro Tull. I do this for Eric's sake. He has a really hard time with Jethro Tull.
Nick: I brought as much goth and post-punk as I could into this record.
Christian: Definitely a big funk influence in terms of the bass and drums. Other influences are Iron Maiden, the Doors, the Buzzcocks, Bauhaus and other classic rock influences.
KA: To piggyback on that a little bit, I love the sound on “Nerves.” It feels like barely constrained chaos in all the best ways. Can you share a little bit about how that track came together?
Eric: That track was written during a transition period for the band. We just switched the lineup from a Rhodes piano to a 2nd guitar and had Farren Jecky join the group. He was from Ireland and came up with the main riff. He got deported, and that’s when E. Davis came into the band. We liked that riff and just kept it and recorded it with his blessing; he is credited as a co-songwriter. It was written very fast, in about 10 minutes. We (Christina, Ryan, and I) took the beginning/verse riff and created a song from that.
Ryan: So this guy joined the band for a while. Eric found him on Backpage. He grew up in a fishing village north of Northern Ireland. He played in the band for about a year. He quit because he didn't like the music we were making. He wrote the riff. Sometimes, playing with a guy who thinks you stink is helpful. There will probably never be a reunion. He was deported back to that Island that pretends it isn't a part of Great Britain.
Nick: Fun fact: Christian and I overdubbed dueling acoustic guitars with one microphone on that track.
Christian: This track's riff came from our Irish buddy Farren. We stole the riff from him (with permission) and fleshed out the song.
KA: For anyone coming to your music for the first time, what do you want them to take away from it? For fans of the two previous records, what should they expect?
Eric: I hope they take away that life is short, and you can’t take the things and people you love for granted. As difficulty as living can be, there are rewards for people who push through the shit that gets thrown at us daily. I hope people who listen start to question things like the human civilization and how we got to this planet, and where it’s going.
Ryan: I expect them to not like it. There is nothing likable about it. I do know that because of its sophistication and how thick this record is, it will gnaw at anyone who gives it a serious go the first time around. They will revisit. If you revisit this one, you will get hooked. Heavy things get stuck in our minds if we let them in.
Nick: TFTK has become more explosive and pungent.
Christian: This record and most of our songs come from an unconstrained, super-free musical place. I feel like every time we write a song, it's like smashing atoms of a whole bunch of musical influences that are just roaming our heads rent-free. I hope people find our music eclectic and fun, with a good dose of adventure. This current record is a lot more studio-oriented in that we had more time to experiment and had a lot more colors to use on our canvas in terms of instruments and sounds. Beau and Eric did a hell of job producing this thing.
KA: In the record’s liner notes is a code that, if cracked, will lead someone to treasure in/near Madison. Has anyone found it?
Eric: Not yet, but people are getting pretty close.
Ryan: There is no evidence the treasure has been found. There have been a few close calls.
Nick: No but some have come remarkably close. Maybe we'll give them a hint in a year.
Christian: Not sure! Maybe Eric or Nick knows....
KA: What's next for the band? What does the rest of 2024 look like for you?
Eric: We have a good batch of songs ready for a new album, and hopefully we can get the recording finished in 2024. We are also playing a lot of shows in Wisconsin and hope to branch out to Chicago and Minneapolis soon.
Ryan: 2024? At the rate we are going, we will have been streamed in the background of a billion soccer videos on Instagram. I don't understand the future. I just want to make cassette tapes again.
Nick: Crazy new songs are popping up at practice. Plus, we'll be rockin' and playing around the Midwest and Wisconsin this year.
Christian: Get back in the studio ASAP. Try and have some fun shows over the summer. Maybe play on a boat in Lake Monona!
The Flavor That Kills | Book Of Secrits, 2024
Click on the record to listen on your platform of choice.
RIYL: Parliament, Fishbone, Electric Six, dancing your way through the apocalypse
To connect with The Flavor That Kills and buy their music, click here:
| Bandcamp | Spotify | Facebook | Instagram |
5 Questions:
1. Describe your music style in one sentence.
Eric: Punk rock roots with a soul/funk attitude.
Ryan: Gustave Mahler on Adderall rollerblading across Lake Monona in early January.
Nick: Chaotic soul-punk
Christian: Controlled chaos with a banging rhythm section.
2. What music played in your house(s) growing up?
Eric: My dad made me and my brother listen to “Several Species of Small Fury Animals Gathering Together in a Cave and Grooving with a Pict” by Pink Floyd in our basement on full volume and turned the lights out on us. And when I say “made us,” we were not allowed to leave. We were probably about 10 and 9 years old.
Ryan: Growing up, we only had three radio stations: Country, Classic Rock, and the Madonna/Michael Jackson station. I once saved my allowance money and bought a Poison cassette for four bucks.
Nick: Frank Zappa
Christian: Talking Heads, Jimi Hendrix, Moody Blues, New Age music from the 80s, Kraftwerk, Reggae, Motown, James Gang, Enya, Dvorak, Mozart, Beethoven, Miles Davis, McCoy Tyner, Coltrane.
3. What are you listening to these days?
Eric: I just put on Pink Floyd’s Ummagumma because of the story of my Dad. I’ve also been listening to Boris Blank, Mother’s Finest, Thin Lizzy, and The Armed.
Ryan: I have had Wilco stuck in my head for the past 3 weeks. Will someone make it stop?
Nick: The last records I bought were UFO, Judas Priest, Conway & Loretta, and Alice Cooper's "Flush the Fashion." Also been listening to a lot of Blue Oyster Cult this week.
Christian: DJ Shadow's new record, Jenny Hval, GOAT, Slowdive, Raffi (I have a 1-year-old).
4. What are your 5 Desert Island Discs?
Eric: Nomeansno-“Small Parts Isolated and Destroyed,” John Coltrane “Ole,” AC/DC-“Highway to Hell,” Crumbsuckers “Life of Dreams,” Rush “ A Farewell to Kings”
Ryan: The first 5 Jethro Tull records. I am talking about motivation to make it back home.
Nick: The Clash Sandinista, The Cure Disintegration,
Christian: “Premiere Symptoms” by Air, Band of Gypsies, “Speaking in Tongues” by Talking Heads, “Hounds of Love” by Kate Bush, “One Nation Under a Groove” by Funkadelic.
5. If you could collaborate with any artist/band, who would it be?
Eric: What Christian said, Niles Rogers!
Ryan: Nikki Minaj and ReDone. I think we might be able to come up with some good ideas.
Nick: Zombie Roger Troutman
Christian: Nile Rodgers!
Thanks to The Flavor that Kills for stopping by, and thank you for being here,
Kevin—
Good stuff, Kevin -- thanks for sharing. Love the blender of influences that they mention.
Nice Kevin! These guys are great... if you don't know them, you should.