In Conversation: Tricia Halloran
The music supervisor stops by to talk about what a normal day looks like, delivering the right song for the right scene, and drivetime radio
Good morning!
We’re in for a treat today; Brave New World’s Tricia Halloran stops by to talk about being a music supervisor for film/TV, drivetime radio, and more!
We all have a favorite.
That one song from that one movie. A track that defined a scene or even the film. One that resonates so much that years later, it still transports you to another world. There are, of course, big examples. Play a few notes on Simple Minds’ “Don't You Forget About Me,” and ask the closest Gen Xer what it reminds them of. Odds are good that they’ll tell you Breakfast Club before you’ve finished the sentence—same story with Singles, Reservoir Dogs, and more. Same story with your favorite TV shows and those commercials that are playing one of your favorite songs.
How we consume media may have changed, but how music can define what we’re watching has not.
So how does all that happen, anyway? Between the director’s vision and what we take away from it are a long line of choices, logical hurdles, and legal issues. Hitting all the marks takes someone with not only an encyclopedic music knowledge—music might be subjective, but what music to place where is a skill—but also broad knowledge of licensing and copyright laws, what channels to navigate, and more. It’s part science, part magic. It takes a music supervisor. It takes people like Tricia Halloran.
With a background in computer science, Halloran started in the corporate world and quickly burned out. She then pivoted to the world of radio, eventually leveraging her experience in both worlds into a career as a music supervisor. Her days are still spent in a universe of sound and the less-exciting-but-no-less-important legal world. Sometimes, this can be as simple as securing licensing rights. Sometimes, it can mean getting several people with very different interests all on the same page- a critical skill in its own right. Often, it means a mix of both.
Closer to home, Halloran has a talent for sourcing new music and shares it here with her Brave New World newsletter (her radio show’s namesake). She describes herself as a musical sherpa—more on that below—and she does a fantastic job of sifting through countless releases to bring only the best to her readers.
In a wide-ranging chat, Halloran shares how she got where she is, what a “normal” day looks like for her (spoiler: there’s no such thing), and some of her favorite tracks.
Make sure to give Brand New World a read!
Our conversation has been lightly edited for clarity and flow.
KA: I'm curious about your backstory. What got you to this point in your career? What spark kicked everything into motion? Later on, what made you make the jump from KCRW to being a Music Supervisor for TV/Film?
TH: This is kind of a long but worthy story. I was a computer science major in college. Very set on having a career at a big company and a secure future with a steady good income. (ha!) I worked at Xerox right after college, as part of a sales team programming their huge laser printers and training customers. It was great fun, but after several years, I looked around at the managers above me and thought, “I don’t want to be that.” Then, somewhat simultaneously, I had a really bad breakup. And I would sit in my office morosely and play Sinead O’Connor’s “Nothing Compares 2 U” on repeat. After a few days of this my friend came in and said “I can’t take it anymore, you need to do something new, why don’t you go down to that radio station you love so much and volunteer there?” So I did. I lucked into a great evening shift volunteering for Deirdre O’Donoghue, who became my mentor, and gradually, I was able to work on-air and then get better and better shifts. Through KCRW, I met somebody who worked at Capitol Records, and I was able to get a full-time job there that used my computer background. Eventually, I was hired full-time at KCRW by Chris Douridas to help run the music department and manage the physical music library.
Also through KCRW I met an indie filmmaker and he asked me to work on his film, it was my first project and I had no idea what I was doing but luckily one of my best friends (that I also met via KCRW) was a music supervisor, so she showed me the ropes. I left my full-time job at KCRW (but kept my evening on-air shift) soon after Chris left … mainly because they chose someone else to replace him, so I thought it best to look for other opportunities. I worked at a music website startup, and then I got a full-time job music supervising commercials, so I got some great experience there.
Again, through KCRW a TV project came my way, Men In Trees on ABC starring Anne Heche. After that, more TV projects were offered to me via word of mouth. My employer wanted to focus on commercials and not TV, so I went independent, and that’s where I am today! After several years, I got an agent, and she helped me get some film work and widened out my contacts in the TV and Film worlds. (She was just thanked by name at the Oscars, by the way, her composers Clement Ducol and Camille won Best Song for Emilia Perez!)
KA: What's a normal day look like for you?
TH: No such thing as normal, literally! That is one of my favorite aspects of this job. Assuming for a moment I am mid-project on a TV show. There are generally three 2-person editing teams working on three episodes. They are filming an episode and writing episodes simultaneously. So the Executive Producers, the director, the writers, or any of the six editors might need songs for what they are working on. Once they ask, they generally need things immediately. So it’s a lot of responding to their needs. Somewhere in there, I also need to research song ownership, clear songs, keep a budget updated to let the Post Producer know our costs, and eventually create cue sheets.
KA: The Telecommunications Act of 1996 forever altered the radio landscape. Apologies if I have my timelines off, but In what ways did it affect you personally? How did you navigate those changes?
TH: That is a really interesting and deep question! By 1996, I was deep into my tenure at KCRW, which, being a public-owned radio station, wasn’t affected negatively by the consolidations. However, thinking about it, I’d say there was probably a positive effect for KCRW since they became the only independent choice left, right? Used to be there was a decent commercial alternative rock station in Los Angeles, and a really good "Adult Alternative” (AAA) station that would play Roxy Music and the BoDeans. But KROQ became much more commercial after that, and the AAA station was purchased by one of the conglomerates. So I’m speculating that, if anything, it drove curious listeners to camp out at KCRW. The mid to late 90s were really great times for KCRW, membership would increase year over year, and amazing artists would come by the station - perhaps this was assisted by the fact that they became the only indie radio left in town?
KA: Jumping back to the present: when you're working on a TV/film project, what's the process you use to find songs that fit? Do you come in later and maybe watch a rough cut of the film, or does it start at the beginning?
TH: It’s never too early to start! For example, let’s say there’s a Karaoke scene scripted. Once they film the scene with the actors singing a song, it's married to the visual, and you have no choice about the song and no bargaining power over the fee. So it’s better if I can work with the writers when they are imagining the scene and suggest songs that I know will be both clearable and affordable.
Once the editors are working on a cut, I find it best to try to get them choices so they don’t go hunting around on their own, which is sure to turn up obscure things that are maybe difficult/impossible to clear or incredibly popular songs that are very expensive. Editors love to go on YouTube to find music, which contains a surprising amount of unreleased/unclearable music!
When an editor finishes their cut and turns it over to the Executive Producers, ideally, all the music in that cut is clearable and affordable. But the EPs may have their own ideas about the music, so sometimes I get requests to change music.
For example:
EP: “Tricia we need something different here.”
Me: “Different how?”
Them: “Just different, y’know.” !!!
As far as process, I wish it was more definable, believe me! Every placement is an equation with different aspects. If it’s a background in a bar, I’m looking more at libraries of pre-cleared music or indie artists that won’t cost a fortune. If it's an ending song to accompany a montage, I’m looking up the food chain a little for something that might resonate with viewers, then the lyrics are really important. If it's Karaoke, I’m looking for something vintage that is recognizable but won’t cost a fortune. Experience is the best teacher here!
KA: How much of your time is spent on the logistics side of things? I'm talking about securing licensing rights, etc.? What's involved? Roughly speaking, how long does it take to "get" a song to use on any given project? What about costs? Is it a flat rate, or is every track/label different?
TH: Most people are surprised that I spend about 50% of my work hours securing clearances. It can be a pretty complex task, depending on the song. But I like research and right-brain stuff just as much as creative, so I don’t mind.
You first have to research who the rightsholders are. Who wrote the song? Do they have publishers that control their copyrights? Who owns the actual recording of the song - usually a record label and not the publisher, so that’s already at least two rightsholders. If there are multiple writers, there could be several different publishers and a record label. They all need to agree on the set of rights (which vary widely depending on the project) and the fee. So, it's a combination of research, communicating, and negotiating.
I have a million crazy stories about clearances, but we don’t have the space! Costs also vary widely depending on the project and the rights. From a low of $1000 for a song to $150K, I’ve done every deal you can imagine in Film and TV. For commercials, the fees are higher, and a recognizable song can easily command $500K.
KA: You describe yourself as a "Musical Sherpa," and if I'm honest, I wish I'd come up with a cool descriptor like that! To double-click on that for a second, when you say that, what do you intend for it to mean?
TH: I love being people’s guide to music. Most people who love music, especially indie music, are always looking for more new music to love. It’s hard to find these days (due to the radio consolidation you mentioned), and also streaming music platforms and DIY recording and distribution have provided so many more choices that it’s like we’re thirsty but drowning. Music fans can be overwhelmed! That’s why your newsletter and all the conversations you have in your chat about music are so critical for music lovers and what I’m trying to help with via my newsletter.
Maybe Substack is the new radio? My show on KCRW was always about guiding people to incredible music they might not know otherwise. So I’d play a little REM and then some Olivia Tremor Control. You like this? Then maybe you will like this. You like The Replacements? Let's follow that up with some Buffalo Tom. So that's where the Sherpa comes in, like a musical guide—to music fans, to filmmakers, to friends. It suits everything I do!
KA: Last one, just for fun: You've got an entire drivetime slot to play whatever you want. What's coming through my speakers?
TH: Ooh best question ever! I do miss being a DJ. If you gave me one hour on the air this week, here are the 20 songs I would play.
I would begin with Hana Vu because I am obsessed with her! She’s an incredible visual and musical artist. My other current obsession is the Luke Sital-Singh song “Saint & Thief,” which is so well-written that I played it 10 times in a row the first time I heard it. He’s a genius.
Hana Vu “Look Alive”
Soccer Mommy “Some Sunny Day"
MJ Lenderman “Wristwatch”
Buffalo Tom “Taillights Fade”
The Linda Lindas “All In My Head”
Bad Bad Hats “Let Me In"
Christian Lee Hutson “Carousel Horses”
Vampire Weekend “Prep School Gangsters”
Ducks Ltd. “Hollowed Out"
Waxahatchee “Evil Spawn”
Katie Gavin “The Baton”
The Smile “Wall Of Eyes”
Luke Sital-Singh “Saint & Thief”
Joyer “Drive All Night”
Hachiku “Tell Your Friends You Love Them”
Future Islands “The Tower”
Talking Heads “Perfect World”
Automatic “On The Edge"
Mk.gee “Are You Looking Up"
Aloe Blacc “Love Is The Answer”
Have you ever thought about the music behind your favorite movies or shows? Maybe thought about what the job entails? drop any questions, thoughts, or hot takes in the comments!
Thank you to Tricia Halloran for her time, and thank you for being here.
Kevin—
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I was just thinking about music supervision the other day. Very timely, for me, and informative read!
I've secured the rights to a couple of songs for films I've made. It's interesting how easy it can be if you are working with the reps of an independent artist. It's sad when the costs for well-known songs and artists skyrockets!